Gamer Forge Listener Email: Incorporeal Attacks, Giantkind Gloves, and Telepathy

Gamer Forge Listener Email:

Name

Sam Workman

Comment
Is it possible to hit an incorporeal creature with a spell that requires a melee touch attack without the use of any magical ability that allows one to make contact with incorporeal beings? Put another way, does using a melee touch attack spell grant the innate ability to hit incorporeal beings with it?

The most typical example would be the use of a Cure Spell, or potentially the Lay on Hands supernatural ability, as used on incorporeal undead such as Shadows or Banshees (Undead and Incorporeal tend to go together more than any other monster type, and all undead, physical or otherwise are harmed by healing magic). Would attempting to cast a healing spell on such a creature using only your bare hands be possible? I see three possible interpretation, with two possible answers:

1) Yes, because a magic spell is being used, and all magic grants the innate ability to bypass incorporeal creatures as per its definition.

2) No, because in order deliver a spell as a melee touch attack, one must first make the touch attack, which is impossible on such a creature. The magical nature of the attack does not come into play until after the mundane contact is made.

3) Yes, because even though #2 is true, one can release the spell simply in the general vicinity of the creature (such as sticking one's hand through them and releasing it inside them) without having to strictly feel the target.

The only reason this comes up is because I am concerned that the second one is correct - that such an attack is impossible because delivering such a touch attack does not count as magical until after it hits, which it never will.
 
Gamer Forge Response:

Intangibility, or tangibility? That is the question. But DCR says the answers are:

1. Incorporeal creatures are a nasty little cheat to beat magic and spells. Almost on a Turbo Tunnel level to make a creature impossible to beat. Our argument for saying that incorporeal creatures can NOT be magic-ed up would be along the lines of "you can't touch it on the shoulder, you can't deliver a touch attack." Your hands pass through the being, so touch attacks are impossible.

2. However, the flip side of the coin would be more "meta". If the being is to be considered on the material plane (or whatever plane of existence you might be on), it must have a tiny bit of tangibility, and have at least some small chance of touching it. Otherwise, how does it interact with anything? You can quantify this by giving the creature in question the bonuses to defense similar to being blind or fighting in the dark, or complete cover. The odds are very against the heroes, but the chance is still there.

3. The cool part: this opens the door to make heroes question their reality and sanity. Use this scenario sparingly. If all the enemies they face are incorporeal, then it becomes mundane and/or impossible to deal with, and you lose their interest. But once in a great while, pull out the see-thru stuff to mess with their mind.

"Using my gauntlets helps against ghosts! Trust me, I'm a doctor."

Gamer Forge Listener Email:

Name

Henry Stevenson

Comment
Can demon lords read minds in D&D 4th edition?

If they cannot, would it be a stretch to say Graz'zt (a demon lord I'm depending on heavily in my campaign) can perform this feat?

Gamer Forge Response:

Demonic presence? You can totally handle it! When it comes to the leaders of the damned, DCR says:

Sure. There's no reason they can't. Do your players know enough to question your authority? That's a trick question. It doesn't matter. If you think your demon villain would be better with telepathy, then go for it.

Demons + Telepathy = Top 40 hits.

Gamer Forge Listener Email:

Name
Robert Cole

Comment
Does a weapon thrown with Giantkind Gloves gain weapon benefits?

Giantkind Gloves possess the following power:

Power (Standard Action)

Strength + 2 vs. AC; ranged 6/12; you throw an object 30 lb. or less; 2d6 + Strength modifier damage.
Level 14: Strength + 4 vs. AC; ranged 8/16; 50 lb. or less; 2d8 + Strength modifier damage.
Level 24: Strength + 6 vs. AC; ranged 10/20; 80 lb. or less; 2d12 + Strength modifier damage.

Since no standard weapon weighs over 30 lb., every weapon would be eligible for throwing using this power.

When throwing a weapon with this power, does this attack benefit from other bonuses?

Essentially, the questions that I think need to be answered are:

•Does throwing a weapon with this power count as making an attack with that weapon?
(e.g. weapon properties, magic weapon)
•Is this considered "throwing a weapon" for the sake of counting as a thrown weapon attack?
(e.g. class features, other passives)
References
The following examples are provided as a reference for what I am asking about.

Weapon Proficiency
This seems pretty straightforward but worth mentioning. Since the attack does not list the Weapon keyword, I do not believe it can benefit from weapon proficiency bonuses:

Proficiency Bonus: Gained from proficiency with a weapon, this bonus applies to attack rolls with that weapon. An adventurer gains the proficiency bonus only when wielding the weapon and using powers that have the weapon keyword.

Class Features
The Seeker's Spiritbond class feature grants two different bonuses to thrown weapon attacks:

You also gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls with both light thrown and heavy thrown weapons, and when you make an attack by throwing a weapon with which you have proficiency, the weapon returns to your hand after the attack.

Magic Weapon Returning
Would throwing a magic weapon with these gauntlets benefit from the rule that states magic weapons return? The power says ranged 6/12, which I am guessing makes it a Ranged attack- otherwise one would argue it does not provoke opportunity attacks.

Any magic light thrown or heavy thrown weapon, from the lowly +1 Dagger to the +6 Dragonslayer Javelin automatically returns to the wielder's hand after a Ranged Attack with the weapon is resolved.

Magic Weapon Properties
For example, when throwing a Weapon of Long Range, which has the following properties:

This weapon’s long range increases by 10 squares.
You do not take the penalty to attack rolls for attacking at long range with this weapon.

It seems the power would not benefit from the first property, but might with the second.

Feats
•Power Throw allows you to deal extra damage for a -2 penalty to attack rolls when making a "ranged attack with a heavy thrown weapon".
•Arcing Throw: "When you use a spear as a thrown weapon, the target doesn’t gain cover from its allies."
•Brutal Bludgeon: "When you hit with a club or a mace ... Reroll any damage die result of 1 until the die shows 2 or higher."
Other Passives
What about other passives, such as the one found on Dwarven Throwers?

Gamer Forge Response:

We asked for more specific, and we got it. DCR says:

1. Revan and Flagoon say yes, because it's a thrown weapon, provided you are proficient with the weapon being thrown. However...

2. Guy Named Joe believes that he is always correct. His logic is flawless. He says, "no", because when using a magic item to make an attack, the bonus for the attack are generated from the glove, not the weapon. The item being thrown is a random, non-specific item, like a dumbbell or a kettle, and not the character's specific items. Your proof is right here.




*Bonus XP: For even more references to awesome demons and telepathy, check out the movie Scanners here and the movie Legend here. Both are old movies, but are totally in line with the sorts of themes involved in a fantasy epic. Yes, even Scanners, believe it or not. You gotta demonstrate just how awful a power like telepathy can be when in the hands of evil, right?

Seriously, this guy's head is about to explode from telepathy. 'Nuff said.